Former UN Weapons Inspector in Iraq and US Marine Corps Intelligence Officer, Scott Ritter: “We trained the Nazis. Literally."

An enlightening interview by George Galloway with Scott Ritter.

There is a lot of valuable information in this interview by George Galloway with Scott Ritter which helps to explain and clarify some of the many questions we have about what has and is really going on in the Ukraine. The interview was recorded the 11th of March 2022.

For anyone who is not familiar with Scott Ritter, this is a brief overview of his background:

Scott Ritter served as a former U.S. Marine Corps Intelligence officer (1984-1991), in the Soviet Union as an inspector implementing the INF Treaty, in General  Norman Schwarzkopf’s staff during the Gulf War, and as a UN weapons inspector in Iraq (1991-1998). He is author of SCORPION KING: America’s Suicidal Embrace of Nuclear Weapons from FDR to Trump, “Iraq Confidential” (Nation Books, 2005), and “Target Iran” (Nation Books, 2006). Source

The following is the transcript of the discussion. Key points include:

• Bioweapons in the Ukraine are addressed thanks to Scott’s background.

• Russia’s conscientious care not to harm and injure civilians.

• Russia's soft 'Syrian' military approach could turn against them. 

• Ukraine, with the West’s assistance, is to arm Nazis (and possibly Jihadis?) with Javelins and Stingers.

• The Neo-Nazi manipulation of political figures in the Ukraine.

• Zelenskyy’s CIA and MI6 handlers.

• Propaganda.

GG: I was myself startled last Sunday when the news broke for the first time from the Russian Defence Ministry but I kept a large pinch of salt in case it wasn’t true. But then Victoria Nuland confirmed it in front of the Senate just yesterday didn’t she?

SR: Well she confirmed that there were biological research labs . She did not confirm that there were biological weapons or biological warfare labs, but the distinction between the two is sometimes a very narrow one and the United States has for many years been walking a very thin line between what is permissible under the Biological and Toxins Weapons Convention (BWC) under Article 1 and what is prohibited. I think when the data is shook out we’re going to find out that what was going on in Ukraine clearly falls in on the prohibited side. We know this from Robert Pope, the director of the programme, that the Department of Defence program operated these labs. He gave a press conference right before the war started where he was worried that the Russians might turn off the electricity or somehow bomb the power generation capabilities labs, saying that the samples that are there, the pathogen samples which are frozen would thaw out. And then if the facility was damaged they would be released. That’s a legitimate worry. 

But then he went on to say something that I wish Marco Rubio had followed up with Victoria Nuland. He said some of these facilities are newly manufactured. Some of them date bak to the Soviet biological warfare period, meaning they are biological warfare facilities. And he said scientists being scientists, there’s no doubt in my mind that some  of these scientists preserved the very weapons they were working on. So yes, these are literally biological warfare facilities because they store, they have retained samples of biological warfare agents that have no use in any preventive biological research, defensive biological research. They can only exist if somebody seeks to replicate them in the future as part of a reconstituted biological weapons program. 

So it’s a little snide to say this but Russia has succeeded in Ukraine where the United States failed in Iraq by invading a country with a viable biological warfare capability.

GG: Yes, it’s one of the great ironies. No WMDs in Iraq, just a million dead people. Just ISIS and al-Qaeda cascaded around the world. Just a Grand Canyon of hatred to open that will never be closed, and there were no WMD at all in the end.

GG: Let me move on if I may to tax your military background and your military knowledge. I said, and I’d like your view on it, that Russia has been fighting this war with one hand deliberately behind its back. If it had wanted to, it could have flattened every city in Ukraine in the way that we did in Iraq in 2003. Am I right about that?

SR: Yes, I have to admit that when Russia initiated this action I was one of the people that believed that they would use their doctrine in pursuing military objectives, and that is to combine overwhelming firepower – That is mass artillery strikes, which literally devastate the area in front of them followed by mass armoured assault through that area, penetrating and moving on, and repeating as necessary. Literally destroying everything in its path. And this is a military that’s fully capable of doing this. I was a little shocked when I saw that they weren’t. 

Two things. One: we have Ukrainian friends who are very anti-Russian but they have family back in Ukraine who they of course call back to check in on, and early on, their family members said, ‘Oh the Russians are here’ and they said, ‘Well how’s it going, Are they you know, brutalising you? 

“No, they’re very polite. They say, please just live your life. They let us fly the Ukrainian flag.” They just say, “Get out of our way because we’re going to accomplish our mission but we don’t want to interfere with you. We don’t want to do anything.” And then she said a couple of days later that Ukrainian forces had counter-attacked taking advantage of the Russian softness, pushed the Russians back. She said the Russians refused to defend in the urban area because they didn’t want to cause civilian casualties.

And then I listened to a Russian General and he said, “In Ukraine we are using the Syrian tactics.” Now many people in the west will say, “Aha, I knew it. That means they’re going to bomb Aleppo into the dirt.”

The Russians didn’t bomb Aleppo into the dirt. What the Russians did do is work with the Syrian Army to surround urban areas where these jihadists had been gathered, terrorising the population, surround them and then give the opportunity to evacuate on buses with their security guaranteed by Russian military police. A soft approach that protected civilians. Protected civilian areas. And the General said, “We’re doing this.” And he said, “We have paid a heavy price for this. While we have destroyed the Ukrainian ability to fight a cohesive battle.” 

Meaning, divisions co-ordinate with divisions etc. ‘They still have the ability to operate on the battalion and brigade level and they are cutting off convoys. They’re killing our boys because we’re coming in soft.’

To give an example, in Kharkiv, Karkov whatever you want to call it, you know the Russian Spetsnaz went in with the intention of negotiating their way through. The Deputy Major who met with them was assassinated by the Azov Battalion for collaborating, and the 15-man detachment that had been sent in there was surrounded and annihilated by the Ukrainians who were fighting in an urban area.

And people say, “Well why are the Russians bombarding residential areas in Karkov?” You know they’re protecting, because the Ukrainians are dug in there. They’re dug in there. They’re putting their equipment there.

Now Russia has taken a pause and the feeling is, and I think I’ve heard the Russian General say this that they’re giving the Ukrainians one last chance to bring this thing to an end. They’ve confronted the Ukrainian Government with a fait accompli. The Ukrainian Government knows they’ve lost. Anybody who isn’t paying attention to the propaganda knows Ukraine has lost this fight. Now it’s just down to the bitter bloody end. It’s like when the Russians crossed the Vistula and came up to Berlin, the Germans had lost but they still fought a bloody battle for Berlin that cost both sides a lot of lives. 

There’s still a lot of fight left in Ukrainians but it’s fighting in support of a lost cause. If the Ukrainians refuse the Russian offer which I believe Lavrov will make tomorrow in Turkey, the Russians are coming in hard. Not that they’re going to try and target civilians, but it’s gloves off when it comes to the Ukrainian Military. They will, because up until now, the Russians have treated the Ukrainian military as their Slavic brother. Meaning, we understand you’re resisting us. We understand you’re defending your country, but we don’t want to slaughter you like we could. 

Well, that’s over and I think what we’re going to see in the days to come if Ukraine doesn’t capitulate according to Russian terms, is a completely different battle where it will literally be hell on earth for the Ukrainian people and for Ukrainian military. And, as somebody who has studied the Russian way of war, I don’t wish that on my worst enemy unless of course they’re Neo-Nazis or Jihadists.

GG: How likely is it that in Turkey, agreement will be reached in your view Scott?

SR: You know it’s 50/50 at my point. Because I’ve listened to Zelenskyy speak and he’s all over the map. I mean, he’s literally a bipolar individual. But on occasion he will say things such as, “Why would I ever want to be a member of NATO? They’ve betrayed me. Why would anybody want to be a member of NATO? They betrayed me. So maybe I would accept neutrality, if I could get you know, written guarantees for my security”, which of course Russia will give them. 

So we know Zelenskyy is going, could, is capable of at least talking about accepting that term about Donbas, the Lugansk and Donetsk. He said, “Why, it’s just poor Pole mine. Why do I want that? Give it to them. Give it to them.”

So he seems to have accepted the notion that those are independent entities now that’ll never again be part of Ukraine.  

On Crimea he said, ‘I’m open to discussing something that respects the will of the people like a referendum that he participates in and if that’s the case, they’ll vote to be independent. He’ll accept that. So it appears that there is the potential of this but that’s whenever Zelenskyy gets away from his handlers. Then Zelenskyy is brought back in.

People need to understand this. He is being managed by a CIA MI6 conglomerate.

You and I have talked about in the past what MI6 did with Iraq, Operation Mass Appeal, an information operation where they planted information, psychological warfare, to try to create a perception in the British public conducive to supporting a war in Iraq. 

Well the CIA does the same thing and they’re doing it right now. Where do you think the 13 brave defenders of Snake Island came from? They wrote that. Where do you think the Ghost of Kiev came from? The CIA wrote that.

We know the New York Times, I forget who reported, maybe the Associated Press or somebody, was honest about the, “I don’t need a ride. I need ammunition” line that Zelenskyy is now famous for. Nobody ever quoted him. They quoted an unnamed U.S. Intelligence Official who quoted Zelenskyy. I mean that was the most honest anybody’s been.

And then this ridiculous speech he gave to the British Parliament. You know bringing up Churchill. Bringing up Henry the V. You think Zelenskyy wrote that? No. That was written by his CIA MI6 handlers.

The sad thing is the British Parliament allowed themselves to be debased in that fashion. Here is one of the oldest institutions of democracy in the world, and it allowed itself to be used by its own intelligence service to spread propaganda. To propagate a lie.

Shame on the British Parliament and shame on the British people for allowing this to happen. Just like I say shame on the American people in the American Congress. But I mean at least we haven’t been used, well we did I guess. Zelenskyy spoke to the U.S. Senate the same way. So yes, we’re both guilty of having our various democratic institutions be humiliated by being nothing more than a pawn for their respective intelligence services. In America this is illegal. 

GG: This is yes, a clack. Clapping like seals. The last time I saw a standing ovation in the British Parliament I was there, and the only one not standing, was on that the day Tony Blair left office as Prime Minister. He put his pen down on the dispatch box, made to walk out for the last time and the entire assembly stood and clapped like seals. They’re not clapping now about Tony Blair and the Iraq War. And the Iraqi people certainly are not. 

A couple of other things, because of your expertise, if I may. The presence now in Ukraine this day of Islamist fanatic throat cutting, head chopping, islamist fanatics brought from Idlib through Turkey. Why would they do that and what are the dangers of them having done so?

SR:  Well first of all, you can judge. Let me give you an example by answering this way. There’s been a lot of propaganda that Russia brought in mercenaries, the Wagner Group, and that Russia was going to bring in Syrian fighters. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the Russian Military which is one of the most professional militaries in the earth – it doesn’t mean they’re infallible. Doesn’t mean they can’t make mistakes, but they’re professional. Their Officer classes are some of the finest trained military professionals in the world. They would never allow mercenaries to fight alongside their soldiers. They would never allow in a Russian operation in Europe to allow Syrians to join them. Why? It would diminish their combat capability. They train to fight with each other. As soon as you bring in the Syrians, the Syrians can’t do what the Russians do. There’s a decrease in combat effectiveness and people die. So Russian would never do this because they’re military professionals. 

What has Ukraine done recently? A. They’ve given out 25,000 weapons to civilians, which is stupid. 

If you’ve ever seen the movie Downfall about the Battle of Berlin, there’s a scene in there with a General responsible for the professional German defence of the city, watching the Volkssturm and the Hitler youth run through the streets gets slaughtered. And he’s basically saying why are they here? They can’t fight. They don’t know what they’re doing. They don’t know any concept of fire cover concealment etc. and he went and begged to take them off the field of battle. Himmler of course said no. But Zelenskyy has given weapons to civilians who will literally be slaughtered if it comes time to fight. 

He has freed prisoners from prison to fight. He has opened the door for illegal warriors, the mercenaries from Europe who, if they’re captured by Russia will more than likely be given a cursory trial, put up against the wall and shot because they have no rights or protections. They’re the worst kind of scum. The exploiters of conflict. 

And now, what does the Zelenskyy government do? They brought in the Jihadists. They brought in the people because they ostensibly want to kill Russians. 

It’s a pure propaganda move but it’s a poison pill, not for Ukraine because Ukraine’s going going to be destroyed. I doubt Zelenskyy’s going to be able to come up with a peace agreement and Russia has said if he fails to do so, it will be the end of the Ukrainian nation as we know it today. It will be destroyed. 

But now we’re going to have these jihadists, who are being armed by the way with Javelin missiles and Stinger missiles. Now imagine what happens when a bunch of bloodthirsty jihadists take these weapons into Europe. Would you like to be the German Chancellor driving on a highway knowing that up in the hills could be a jihadist hit team armed with Javelins that will take you out? Would you like to be the President of the United States visiting Germany, knowing that up in the hills they’re in? Would you like to be trying to land Air Force One in an airport in Europe knowing that there’s Stinger missiles down there ready to shoot you down?

This is literally the worst kind of decision-making ever to A. put that much weaponry into Ukraine in an uncontrolled fashion, because even before the jihadists came in, you’re giving it to Neo-Nazis who can’t surrender. They can’t surrender because they’ll be killed. Rightfully so. What do desperate people do when they can’t surrender and they don’t die? They run away with the weapon we have. They’ll be burying it, making caches. Falling back on it continuing the feudal resistance. And in their anger to the West, they’ll lash out at the West and become you know, global terrorists. That’s how global terrorism is born. This is literally the worst possible decision one can make and it will have heavy consequences for years to come. 

GG:  Lastly, and you’ve touched on it several times, all the big media organisations over the last eight years, the New York Times, CNN, BBC, all the big outfits have reported on Ukraine’s Neo-Nazi problem, but suddenly, they’ve all forgotten about it and are averting their eyes from it. You’re now a conspiracy theorist for drawing attention to something that they have all made programs about and written extensively about. 

How big is the Neo-Nazi slice of Ukrainian political and especially military strength?

SR:  Well if we’re going to be dead honest, it’s a minority, it’s a distinct minority. if left to normal political affairs, they would be struggling to get more than single digits in terms of voter support. The problem isn’t that you know their role in a viable democracy. Their problem is the role they play in a state formed of violent revolution. 

In the Soviet Revolutions, the Russian Revolution, you had the Bolsheviks and the Mensheviks. The Mensheviks are the minor party. The Bolsheviks are the big party. But the reality was this was propaganda. The Bolsheviks are actually the smaller party. The Mensheviks are the bigger party. But the Bolsheviks through violence and action were able to take control of the revolution. 

When the Maidan occurred, initially it was a peaceful demonstration against the Russian or the Ukraine, the pro-Russian Ukrainian President’s choice to move away from the European Union towards Russia. What happened is the United States and European Union mobilised this virulent nationalist group out of the Volf in Western Ukraine, among whom were these Neo-Nazis who worshipped Stepan Bandera, and the Banderista Movement, which was a pro Nazi Ukrainian movement, carried out a resistance in that area for decades. 

These guys came in and took over Maidan, violently overthrew the legitimate President of Ukraine and then imposed themselves through force of violence, into the Ukrainian body politic. 

To give you an example of how powerful they are, when Poroshenko who was president before Zelenskyy negotiated the Minsk Accords in 2015, 2014-2015, he agreed that all they had to do is give a special autonomous situation or status, to the Donetsk and Luhansk, and they would stay part of Ukraine. He agreed with Germany and France. Then he came back and the Neo-Nazis said, “You try and implement that, we’ll kill you.”

Americans get upset with a bunch of rioters taking The Capital and then leaving the same day. I get upset about it. I’m not happy about it but it ain’t an insurrection. An insurrection is what happened in Ukraine, what’s happening every day. 

Zelenskyy was told he was elected to be the president who brought peace. If you remember, Zelanskyy toured the front line because they were supposed to disarm. And he went up to the Azov Battalion and he said disarm. They laughed at him, kicked him out. He said, “I’m the President of Ukraine.” They said, “Shut-up. We’ll slap you.” He had to leave and was told, “If you sign Minsk, we will hang you by the neck until dead. 

That’s the control these people have and they’ve done it in the military. These people should have been disbanded, arrested, shot. Instead, the military absorbed them and then promoted their officers throughout the ranks so that there’s Neo-Nazis everywhere. 

The biggest embarrassment of all is when British, American and Canadian troops go to Ukraine to train, that military and NATO tactics, NATO equipment, the photographs show, that they’re training the Azov Battalion, because those were the first units Ukrainian Military brought forward for training. We trained Nazis. Literally. 

GG: Unbelievable. Scott Ritter, thanks for joining us on the Mother of All Talk Shows (MOATS). 

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This is one such report by the BBC who “previously reported on Ukraine’s Neo-Nazi problem, but suddenly, they’ve all forgotten about it and are averting their eyes from it” in 2022. This BBC Newsnight episode with Gabriel Gatehouse “investigates the links between the new Ukrainian government and Neo-nazis.” The programme was originally aired in February 2014.

The BBC video is archived here for safekeeping.